Discussion:
Most ridiculous website?
(too old to reply)
Ignoramus22975
2011-08-25 14:11:16 UTC
Permalink
http://www.leiss.com/

Apparently, the entire website is a flash page, with nothing
clickable.

i
Richard Bonner
2011-08-25 15:15:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ignoramus22975
http://www.leiss.com/
Apparently, the entire website is a flash page, with nothing
clickable.
i
*** Yugg. I am sure the handicapped, the poor, and non-flash users will
hate that page.

It's too bad that webpage authors didn't have to be forced to use
systems/browsers with which the handicapped and poor have before releasing
a page to the Internet.
--
Richard Bonner
http://www.chebucto.ca/~ak621/DOS/
Adrienne Boswell
2011-08-25 16:57:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Richard Bonner
Post by Ignoramus22975
http://www.leiss.com/
Apparently, the entire website is a flash page, with nothing
clickable.
i
*** Yugg. I am sure the handicapped, the poor, and non-flash users
will hate that page.
It's too bad that webpage authors didn't have to be forced to use
systems/browsers with which the handicapped and poor have before
releasing a page to the Internet.
The real problem is that there is nothing there for the most imporatant
visitor, Googlebot.

I have to say though, that's a really good way to prevent email
harvesters from getting the email address.

As to the handicapped and poor:

1. A visually disabled person still wouldn't be missing much. There are
no links, so this would not affect someone without a pointing device.

2. The poor? Modern browsers are free, just as is the plugin necessary
to use the site in question, so I don't understand why you are including
the poor. Even if one did not have a computer, there are libraries which
offer free computer use with Internet. In fact, where I live, sometimes
the homeless have all the library's computers in use.
--
Adrienne Boswell at Home
Arbpen Web Site Design Services
http://www.cavalcade-of-coding.info
Please respond to the group so others can share
Richard Bonner
2011-08-26 18:49:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Adrienne Boswell
Post by Richard Bonner
Post by Ignoramus22975
http://www.leiss.com/
Apparently, the entire website is a flash page, with nothing
clickable.
*** Yugg. I am sure the handicapped, the poor, and non-flash users
will hate that page.
It's too bad that webpage authors didn't have to be forced to use
systems/browsers with which the handicapped and poor have before
releasing a page to the Internet.
The real problem is that there is nothing there for the most imporatant
visitor, Googlebot.
*** D'OH! I forgot in which group I was responding. (-:

Authors need to realise that search engines cannot search images and
animations except for their names. It's bad when some amateur (and
even professional) authors use names such as:

Image-1.jpg
Image-2.jpg
Image-3.jpg
Image-4.jpg
...

It does the search engines no good, and text browser users and the
sight-impaired really hate names like that.
Post by Adrienne Boswell
I have to say though, that's a really good way to prevent email
harvesters from getting the email address.
*** Yup.
Post by Adrienne Boswell
1. A visually disabled person still wouldn't be missing much. There are
no links, so this would not affect someone without a pointing device.
*** With no links or some alternative text to the flash that contains
links, text browser users can't get into the site, while the
sight-impaired may not get much out of it either -- pointing device or
not. However, the latter will be OK if the animation goes into a site
without assistance, but it's still a hassle.

I once say a lecture given by a blind presenter; excuse the pun, but
it really opened my eyes as to how the blind and sight impaired "see" the
Internet.
Post by Adrienne Boswell
2. The poor?
Modern browsers are free, just as is the plugin necessary
to use the site in question, so I don't understand why you are including
the poor.
*** Being free does not help the poor who may be using older systems.
The poor cannot afford broadband (especially here in Canada because of
the rip-off rates charged) and therefore cannot view flash animations
without a way to download them and view them off line (which is useless to
them for a website entry). Many poor here use text browsers or simply turn
off images if using a graphic browser.
Post by Adrienne Boswell
Even if one did not have a computer, there are libraries which offer
free computer use with Internet. In fact, where I live, sometimes the
homeless have all the library's computers in use.
-- Adrienne Boswell
*** That is the case here too, but library hours may not be suitable
for all. A library is not always close to everyone and transportation
can be costly.

As an example: for a girl on social assistance that I know, I recently
set up an old laptop and a dial-up account so she would not have to travel
to a library. The Internet account is free from my ISP but it only
provides a shell account with a text browser for non payers.

I see situations like this all the time. I know many on assistance and
have visually impaired friends.
--
Richard Bonner
http://www.chebucto.ca/~ak621/DOS/
Adrienne Boswell
2011-08-27 00:28:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Richard Bonner
Post by Adrienne Boswell
Post by Richard Bonner
Post by Ignoramus22975
http://www.leiss.com/
Apparently, the entire website is a flash page, with nothing
clickable.
*** Yugg. I am sure the handicapped, the poor, and non-flash
users will hate that page.
It's too bad that webpage authors didn't have to be forced to use
systems/browsers with which the handicapped and poor have before
releasing a page to the Internet.
The real problem is that there is nothing there for the most
imporatant visitor, Googlebot.
Authors need to realise that search engines cannot search images and
animations except for their names. It's bad when some amateur (and
Image-1.jpg
Image-2.jpg
Image-3.jpg
Image-4.jpg
...
It does the search engines no good, and text browser users and the
sight-impaired really hate names like that.
Post by Adrienne Boswell
I have to say though, that's a really good way to prevent email
harvesters from getting the email address.
*** Yup.
Post by Adrienne Boswell
1. A visually disabled person still wouldn't be missing much. There
are no links, so this would not affect someone without a pointing
device.
*** With no links or some alternative text to the flash that
contains links, text browser users can't get into the site, while the
sight-impaired may not get much out of it either -- pointing device or
not. However, the latter will be OK if the animation goes into a site
without assistance, but it's still a hassle.
IIRC, the site in question had no links. Here's something that drives me
nuts, you go to a web site that is mostly plain HTML, and there is
navigation that requires flash, or a button of some sort that requires
flash. What's wrong with <a href="whatever">Whatever</a>?

I use Opera for my primary browser, and have Flash configured to leave a
placemark that I can click if I want to see it. So, I see these web
sites with unnecessary flash doohickeys all the time.
Post by Richard Bonner
I once say a lecture given by a blind presenter; excuse the pun, but
it really opened my eyes as to how the blind and sight impaired "see"
the Internet.
I knew a blind case worker at the Social Security Administration. He was
my girl friend's case worker when she was applying for SSI. Social
Security's computer system is ancient at best, text based something that
looks like it might be AS400. Anyway, I was amazed at how his fingers
flew over the brail keyboard - but he did continuously complain about how
antiquated their system was, compared to his system at home.
Post by Richard Bonner
Post by Adrienne Boswell
2. The poor?
Modern browsers are free, just as is the plugin necessary
to use the site in question, so I don't understand why you are
including the poor.
*** Being free does not help the poor who may be using older
systems. The poor cannot afford broadband (especially here in Canada
because of the rip-off rates charged) and therefore cannot view flash
animations without a way to download them and view them off line
(which is useless to them for a website entry). Many poor here use
text browsers or simply turn off images if using a graphic browser.
You are right about that. I never thought about that, since broadband
here in Los Angeles is usually about the same price, if not cheaper than
dial-up.
Post by Richard Bonner
Post by Adrienne Boswell
Even if one did not have a computer, there are libraries which offer
free computer use with Internet. In fact, where I live, sometimes
the homeless have all the library's computers in use.
-- Adrienne Boswell
*** That is the case here too, but library hours may not be suitable
for all. A library is not always close to everyone and transportation
can be costly.
As an example: for a girl on social assistance that I know, I recently
set up an old laptop and a dial-up account so she would not have to
travel to a library. The Internet account is free from my ISP but it
only provides a shell account with a text browser for non payers.
I see situations like this all the time. I know many on assistance and
have visually impaired friends.
I imagine that "they" think that since these people are on assistance are
too stupid to need the Internet, so why make any effort to make it
available to them. What "they" don't get is there is so much extra
paperwork, and therefore man hours that are wasted because people on
assistance don't have access. The one that I love especially is two
envelopes with three pieces of paper each that the one says "Your benefit
was $xx.xx - and has now been changed to $xx.xx", one that says you can
have a hearing if you don't agree with that xx.xx is the same as xx.xx,
and yet another one that says that you can get this same information,
that xx.xx is the same as xx.xx in twenty different languages. Talk
about waste!

You bring up some interesting points here. Are discriminating against
someone who is poor when you have a heavily flash or graphic laden
website?
--
Adrienne Boswell at Home
Arbpen Web Site Design Services
http://www.cavalcade-of-coding.info
Please respond to the group so others can share
Richard Bonner
2011-08-27 11:15:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Adrienne Boswell
Here's something that drives me
nuts, you go to a web site that is mostly plain HTML, and there is
navigation that requires flash, or a button of some sort that requires
flash. What's wrong with <a href="whatever">Whatever</a>?
*** It's too plain for the eye-candy-junky authors. Unfortunately, they
seem to be ignorant or uncaring of those that can't deal with the eye
candy. )-:

The same problem happens with JavaScript links. Some people cannot
access those and other forms of eye-candied links without the appropriate
browser or plug-ins. It's been my experience that people can't be bothered
with downloading, installing and debugging yet another plug-in, add-on or
software-capability program just so they can view or navigate a website.
Most all the above persons simply leave the site, since in most cases,
there will be scores of other sites available that are accessible.

To keep on topic for this group, search engines cannot follow most
eye-candy links. This is very bad for a business that is not only blocking
access to potential customers, it is reducing its search-engine presence.

I am not a professional website developer, but I do author my four
websites myself. I prefer plain, simple html coding with a minimum of
images, save for one of my sites that displays a lot of photos and
scans, and another of a photo gallery of my work.

I use descriptive "alt" tags for everything; even bullets are
alt-tagged as `*'. I check my sites using as many browsers on as many
systems, with as many monitor types as I can. The first test is
always with a text browser. If it can't pass that, I re-code the offending
areas. After that I tweak for the most popular browsers to be sure the
pages display as closely the same on as many systems as possible.

All this effort makes for accessible sites that also place well in
search engines.

I was taught accessibility by my poor and handicapped friends and I
took it to heart. When I first altered my pages to reflect this, I was
amazed at how quickly my hits rose and how much higher my sites placed in
search engine results.

One final comment on this: Please do not think that I am against eye
candy and truly usable things that require plug-ins, add-ons or certain
browser capabilities. I only request that those authors employing such
methods provide usable "alt", "no-script" / "no-frames" and similar tags.
Most that do so should see a rise in hits and search engine placement.
Post by Adrienne Boswell
I use Opera for my primary browser, and have Flash configured to leave a
placemark that I can click if I want to see it. So, I see these web
sites with unnecessary flash doohickeys all the time.
*** Sure. Now how many of them require you to click on them to continue?
If there is even one, it means poor authoring. Any visitor with any
browser on any platform should be able to at least navigate and be
able to view (or arrange to be able to view) all of a site's content.

The Internet should be for everyone.
Post by Adrienne Boswell
Post by Richard Bonner
I once say a lecture given by a blind presenter; excuse the pun,
but it really opened my eyes as to how the blind and sight
impaired "see" the Internet.
I knew a blind case worker at the Social Security Administration. He was
my girl friend's case worker when she was applying for SSI. Social
Security's computer system is ancient at best, text based something that
looks like it might be AS400.
*** Text-based systems are reliable, demand few resources and can
readily use older equipment.
Post by Adrienne Boswell
Anyway, I was amazed at how his fingers flew over the brail keyboard -
but he did continuously complain about how antiquated their system was,
compared to his system at home.
*** His home system may not be that new either. Handicapped software is
expensive and few handicapped are rich or even well off. Thus, they tend
to keep the same systems for years.
Post by Adrienne Boswell
Post by Richard Bonner
Post by Adrienne Boswell
2. The poor?
Modern browsers are free, just as is the plugin necessary
to use the site in question, so I don't understand why you are
including the poor.
*** Being free does not help the poor who may be using older
systems. The poor cannot afford broadband (especially here in Canada
because of the rip-off rates charged) and therefore cannot view flash
animations without a way to download them and view them off line
(which is useless to them for a website entry). Many poor here use
text browsers or simply turn off images if using a graphic browser.
You are right about that. I never thought about that, since broadband
here in Los Angeles is usually about the same price, if not cheaper than
dial-up.
*** The cheapest broadband here in Halifax is about $500 a year.
However, one can also have an inexpensive, dial-up shell account that
provides text-based Internet access with e-mail and newsgroup services,
and a small webspace for $25 a year -- yes, a *year* ! Graphic access to
the same is $120 a year. I have both, but use the shell account the most
because the majority of my Internet usage (e-mail, newsgroups and website
maintenance) can be done via text only. It also means I need no firewall,
router or virus protection at all. I only use the graphic account if I
need to see a catalog or a photo website.

Surfing in text mode on dial-up is as fast as broadband for most
Post by Adrienne Boswell
Post by Richard Bonner
...for a girl on social assistance that I know, I recently
set up an old laptop and a dial-up account so she would not have to
travel to a library. The Internet account is free from my ISP but it
only provides a shell account with a text browser for non payers.
I see situations like this all the time. I know many on assistance
and have visually impaired friends.
I imagine that "they" think that since these people are on assistance are
too stupid to need the Internet, so why make any effort to make it
available to them.
*** Yet it is these people that need the Internet even more. The
example girl I gave uses the Internet to job search, send resumes and
converse with prospective employers. It is more efficient and cost
effective because she need not take a bus to the library and back.
It means she can check things daily instead of just a few times a week.
Plus, she can communicate with distant friends and relatives. This goes a
long way toward removing feelings of isolation.
Post by Adrienne Boswell
What "they" don't get is there is so much extra
paperwork, and therefore man hours that are wasted because people on
assistance don't have access. The one that I love especially is two
envelopes with three pieces of paper each that the one says "Your benefit
was $xx.xx - and has now been changed to $xx.xx", one that says you can
have a hearing if you don't agree with that xx.xx is the same as xx.xx,
and yet another one that says that you can get this same information,
that xx.xx is the same as xx.xx in twenty different languages. Talk
about waste!
*** It seems to me that with computers, it would be possible to target
each recipient with one piece of paper in that person's language. Of
course, it takes time to develop that, but it can be done with any word
processor of the past few decades that has a "Mail Merge" feature.
Post by Adrienne Boswell
You bring up some interesting points here. Are discriminating against
someone who is poor when you have a heavily flash or graphic laden
website?
--
Adrienne Boswell
*** It is discrimination if there is no alternative coding for the
poor and handicapped. In defense of the authors though, it is probably
not intentional; it is because of their ignorance and incomplete education
regarding webpage writing.
--
Richard Bonner
http://www.chebucto.ca/~ak621/DOS/
Scott Bryce
2011-08-29 16:27:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Richard Bonner
I know many on assistance
My girlfriend is one of them. Because of her low income, she does not
own a computer, or have an internet connection at home. If she needs to
go on line, she will either use a computer at her school or use my
computer. In any case, her lack of income has no effect on her ability
to use a Flash based site. An HTML site is no more visible to her at
home, and Flash is no less visible to her on the computers that are
available to her.
Richard Bonner
2011-08-30 11:57:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Scott Bryce
Post by Richard Bonner
I know many on assistance
My girlfriend is one of them. Because of her low income, she does not
own a computer, or have an internet connection at home. If she needs to
go on line, she will either use a computer at her school or use my
computer.
*** That is an inconvenience, but at least she has access to the
Internet.
Post by Scott Bryce
In any case, her lack of income has no effect on her ability
to use a Flash based site. An HTML site is no more visible to her at
home, and Flash is no less visible to her on the computers that are
available to her.
*** Sure, but that does not mean that website authors are off the hook
regarding the provision of alternatives. Accessibility guidelines demand
it. Flash is just one of the things that should have an alternative;
JavaScript, java and Active-X are three others that come to mind.

As for Internet access, here in Nova Scotia, free computers are
available to those that can't afford one. There are a number of agencies
that collect old ones, refurbish them and give them away. Free, dial-up
Internet is available from Chebucto. All one needs is a phone line, which
is also available for persons on social assistance.

Perhaps your girlfriend may be able to access similar services where
she lives. It would mean Internet access when she wants or needs it.
--
Richard Bonner
http://www.chebucto.ca/~ak621/
Rich
2011-09-08 11:47:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ignoramus22975
http://www.leiss.com/
Apparently, the entire website is a flash page, with nothing
clickable.
i
I just love how much effort has been put into the keywords meta tag
though..... Lot's of relevant keys words to pull you to a site which
does nothing!!
--

Rich
http://www.rhodes-pefkos.co.uk/pefkos-matina.htm
Ignoramus3367
2011-09-08 15:09:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rich
Post by Ignoramus22975
http://www.leiss.com/
Apparently, the entire website is a flash page, with nothing
clickable.
I just love how much effort has been put into the keywords meta tag
though..... Lot's of relevant keys words to pull you to a site which
does nothing!!
Yep, the keywords metatag is kind of astounding...

i
Richard Bonner
2011-09-17 10:51:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ignoramus3367
Post by Rich
Post by Ignoramus22975
http://www.leiss.com/
Apparently, the entire website is a flash page, with nothing
clickable.
I just love how much effort has been put into the keywords meta tag
though..... Lot's of relevant keys words to pull you to a site which
does nothing!!
Yep, the keywords metatag is kind of astounding...
i
*** It shows a lack of training by the site's author.

Most, if not all, search engines will ignore keywords after a certain
number. At one time, some search engines even delisted, or at least ranked
lower, websites with excessive meta tags content. I don't know if this is
still true today, though.
--
Richard Bonner
http://www.chebucto.ca/~ak621
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